Black Panther Party

POV?

There's a big POV sign on the front of this article and the talk page has no mention of why. Can somebody tell me what's going on?

Ward Churchill's book

If you read the book "The COINTELPRO Papers," by Ward Churchill, you can find all the information you requested. It has FBI documents and analysis as well. Free ringtones User:Punkche/Punkche



April 16, 2003 edits

I removed:

:under which Panthers Majo Mills Bobby Hutton and Mosquito ringtone Fred Hampton were murdered, and Newton and Seale were frequently framed for crimes.

In reference to Sabrina Martins COINTELPRO because I don't think any of these specific instances of COINTELPRO disruption are known to be true beyond any doubt. Some specific examples, of which there are many indisputable ones, would be great, and a summary of the issues surrounding Hutton, Hampton, Newton and Seale would also be great. Nextel ringtones User:TUF-KAT/Tuf-Kat



Proposed structure by Graft

Article needs reorganization, so i'm just laying out this structure mostly for myself.

Introduction
* Ten point plan
* Breakfast program
* Merger with SNCC
* COINTELPRO & East/West split
* Decay, BLA etc.

Abbey Diaz Graft/Graft 15:40, 5 Aug 2003



DanKeshet to SonofRage re: UN Plebiscite

SonofRage, you said that the UN plebiscite bit is "apparently a mistake copied from MIM". What are you basing this on? What does it mean? (MIM means Maoist Internationalist Movement to me...) I don't have my books in front of me right now, but it's been in pretty much every book I've read on the panthers, and at the linked source. Could you explain? Free ringtones User:DanKeshet/DanKeshet



SonofRage response to DanKeshet re: UN Plebiscite

DanKeshet,

:If you go to http://www.blackpanther.org/TenPoint.htm you will see no mention of the UN plebicite. My source saying it was a mistake on the part of the Maoist International Movement was Marxists.org. You can see it here: http://www.marxists.org/history/usa/workers/black-panthers/1966/10/15.htm

Majo Mills User:SonofRage/SonofRage



DanKeshet further response

:Thank you, SonofRage. That is quite interesting. When I get my books of Panther documents (they're in the mail), I will confirm against them. The information at marxists.org is itself quite interesting and perhaps should be noted in a footnote. The UN plebiscite version is quite widespread. Mosquito ringtone User:DanKeshet/DanKeshet



Follow-up from SonofRage

:Hmm, perhaps I should change that link as well. Please update on what is in your books though. Conflicting information makes things confusing.

Sabrina Martins User:SonofRage/SonofRage



DanKeshet, Jan. 14, additional information on UN plebiscite

My books have arrived in the mail. I have the 1995 edition of ''The Black Panthers Speak'', originally compiled in 1970, ISBN 0306806274, ed. Phillip Foner. In it, they print what they label as the 1966 Black Panther Party Platform and Program. The program is identical to the one listed at the 1960s website, the one that we used to have in this article. My guess is that there was a later version of this document that eliminated the UN plebiscite and that this is where the confusion is from. It's also possible that marxists.org simply themselves have an incorrect copy. But I'm pretty sure that the original, 1966 program included the call for the UN plebiscite. Cingular Ringtones User:DanKeshet/DanKeshet



SonofRage response, Jan. 15

Hmm, perhaps there should be a reference to it being included in the original and a clarification that the one listed is the one that was most recently adopted.

optimism indeed User:SonofRage/SonofRage



DanKeshet re: time of revision, Jan. 15

:That would be good, but can you confirm that it was indeed revised? Can we figure out when it was revised? too tarnished User:DanKeshet/DanKeshet



SonofRage responds re: time of revision, Jan. 16

:We're going to have to try and find some concrete sources to be sure.
called barbaric User:SonofRage/SonofRage



Comments from Primexx

so uh...u left out a big part, they were a political party at first, then they turned to shooting and such to reach their goal in the middle, then they turned to the traditional side and started the breakfast program and all the other programs...i dont remember the details and dates cuz i dont have my notes here with me right now...for refrench go to world book encyclopedia(i used 2002 edition) and look for Blank Panther Party and suicide Primexx/Primexx 01:47, Apr 2, 2004



it would also be good if someone included some famous speeches in here.... ''(note: also posted by Primexx)''



Neutrality questioned

The neutrality of the article should be questioned, since it lays the entire responsibility for the disintegration of the BPP solely on the FBI, whereas there are other reasons that led to their demise, e.g., the degeneration of the Panthers to a security service for drug dealers in black neighborhoods. ''(note: posted by anonymous describe camp User: 24.107.207.28/24.107.207.28)''

:I'm afraid I know very little about the black panthers, however surely this should not be a "Neutrality" question but instead is a minor factual issue with a single sentence. Could this not be resolved by changing the sentence to:
::The Party eventually fell apart due to a number of reasons including rising legal costs and disputes resulting from COINTELPRO, ...
: and then adding other reasons. Having said I know nothing about it, it does seem to me that "degeneration ... [in] to a security service for drug dealers" would be more an effect of the gradual disintegration rather than a cause. in ghirardelli MrWeeble/MrWeeble 00:11, 20 May 2004

Movement?
I am trying to find some information about the movement, or riot or whatever its classified as that occured durring the ~70s. I have heard it was in Philidalphia. Does anyone have any information on this?
:Are you referring to the the mats MOVE organisation and the 1978 attack on their house in Philadelphia? Wikipedia has an article on them, but it's not very good. It should be enough for you to find other sources, however. I suggest you read it with a grain of salt and read from a variety of sources to try and get a full picture of the fairly controversial events. combinations and Graft/Graft 19:41, 21 Oct 2004

::Yes that's correct. I found it after I came back from lunch. Thank you for the input.

Horowitz's association

IIRC Horowitz was never a party member; he was on the staff of one of its projects. According to Seale, membership in the party proper was not open to whites. A brief mention of Horowitz somewhere in the article, that does not overlap too much with his own article, is probably appropriate. out leers Gazpacho/Gazpacho 00:13, 30 Oct 2004

Intergrationist

"The party rejected the integrationist, nonviolent stance of Martin Luther King, and made it clear from the beginning that it sought no compromise with the "white power structure"."

What? Anyone who has read the party's literature knows without a questionable doubt that the BPP was neither anti-integration nor anti-white. They were anti-white power, true. Huey Newton himself said in an interview in the 1970s something to the effect of, "We are not anti-white. We accept white revolutionaries; the only requirement to being a friend of the Black Panthers was being a friend of the revolution. The fact that most white people were not was merely a coincidence."

More than that, in it's later years the party renounced it's militant views, the official statement being, "The gun is the tool of the pig to fight the revolution and to opress the people; we do not need the gun. We are above the gun."

Angela Davis, UN plebiscite

Took Angela Davis off the "Famous Black Panther Party members list" because she wasn't a Panther. She was in CP-USA.

As far as the UN plebiscite is concerned, there are two versions of the Ten Point Program. The original from 1966 lists Point Ten as, "We want land, bread, housing, education, clothing, justice and peace. And as our major political objective, a United Nations-supervised plebiscite to be held throughout the black colony in which only black colonial subjects will be allowed to participate for the purpose of determining the will of black people as to their national destiny." However, the Ten Point Program was rewritten in 1972 and Point Ten became, "We want land, bread, housing, education, clothing, justice, peace and people's community control of modern technology."

Here's a reference: [http://www.stanford.edu/group/blackpanthers/history.shtml]